Charles Gibson |
out it was Austin Noble , John Patterson and yourself ? Did you have associates ?
MR . GIBSON : It was Patterson , Gibson and Noble and I don ’ t think we had associates right off , but within a few months we did . Eventually we had a big law firm for Montpelier . We had nine or ten of us altogether .
MR . BELCHER : What was your niche in the firm ? Did you have a specialty ?
MR . GIBSON : I did criminal and everything else , but I did some of the same things that Austin and John Patterson did . We didn ’ t stay together too long when I started doing a lot of Public Service Board work . We started in ’ 65 . But I would still do quite a few wills and taxation . I would guess that John Patterson left in ’ 79 . We had quite a few associates over the years … Richard Brock , Barbara Prentice , Les Pratt , Steve Walke , Julian Goodrich , Ralph Howe , John Anderson and Phil Zalinger .
MR . BELCHER : So as you said it became one of the larger firms in Central Vermont , it must have been taxing on you , running herd on the associates .
MR . GIBSON : I don ’ t know that it was “ taxing .” They were all pretty darned good .
MR . BELCHER : So you continued in private practice ?
MR . GIBSON : We split up . I continued in private practice on my own in the same location in part of the offices . That ’ s when I had Phil Dodd and one or two others work for me .
MR . BELCHER : Did you retire from that job ?
MR . GIBSON : I retired in September of 1997 . I was 72 years old and it was time to quit . I regretted it a little bit , but I was glad not to go into the office every day . I had moved to the Blanchard Block . It is beautiful up there . I had a corner office .
MR . BELCHER : So in your career as a lawyer you did a number of things that we have not talked about . I know you were on the Board of Bar Examiners for many years .
MR . GIBSON : Sixteen years and I was Chairman the last five . I had been president of the junior bar of the VBA ( the young lawyers as they call it now ). I was one of the Uniform Law Commissioners . I was on that for five years or so , going to national meetings .
MR . BELCHER : Are there cases or things you wanted to tell me about ?
MR . GIBSON : One matter I look back on with greatest joy is when I was Attorney General , I argued a case before the United States Supreme Court , against the Federal Government . We started off in the US District Court . It was a tax case about the relative priority of a Vermont Tax lien versus a Federal Tax lien in a particular case . Cutting and Trimming was
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the outfit that owed the money . The Vermont Tax Department found that Cutting and Trimming owed the state some money and they put a lien on it and the Federal government heard about it and they put a lien on it . The state got judgment on it and the Federal government claimed that their lien had priority . When it came to tax matters , the Department of Justice did not trust their local U . S . Attorney and they sent a young attorney from the Department of Justice to argue the case in the Federal District Court . So we argued the case there and we won .
And then we went to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals . It was only $ 138,000.00 . I was sitting down there in the Second Circuit Court of Appeals and they sent someone up to argue the case and this person did nothing but argue cases before the Courts of Appeals around the country . He and I were sitting there listening to another $ 4 Milliondollar case . I said to him , “ What are we doing here for a piddly $ 138,000 ? These guys have a $ 4 million dollar case .” He said , “ Our case is much more important than that case . That case will never happen again in a million years . But if you guys in the State of Vermont win your case it will cost the federal government hundreds of millions of dollars .” Well , that made me feel good ! I was arguing a case worth hundreds of millions of dollars ! So , we argued it before the three judge court and we won it .
And they appealed it to the United States Supreme Court . I found out if you were to argue a case down there you had to get admitted . Tom Debevoise had been admitted and he moved my admission to the United States Supreme Court . We went home and waited for our case to be called . I went into the Supreme Court Building I thought I was going to be arguing the case . Well it turned out that we were third or fourth or something . So we go over and sit down with the people who were going to be arguing . The Justices come in ( it starts at 11:00 AM ) and they end at 2:00 PM . Well , one or two cases were argued and they were in the middle of another case at 2:00 PM and the justices just got up and walked out , and these guys are saying , “ Wait a minute ! Wait a minute ! We ’ re almost done !” They didn ’ t pay any attention at all !
So that meant I had to go back again another time . It finally got heard . An interesting thing was that one justice , Justice Douglas , sitting over on the end , he paid no attention when we were arguing . He was working , probably writing an opinion . He probably knew that he was not going to writing this opinion . He would wiggle his finger at a clerk and the clerk would come in and talk to him . And then the clerk would come back in with a law book . Anyway , when it got to be my turn to argue I knew at this point the Justice Department has special counsel who just argue before the Supreme Court ( Solicitor General ). Justice Goldberg asked most of the questions . I did not have any trouble with his questions , I didn ’ t think . A few oth-
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ers asked a few questions . Eventually we went home and got word that we had won the case . … That was a good feeling ! And Potter Stewart wrote the opinion ( whose son practices down in Brattleboro ).
MR . BELCHER : So the holding was first in time , first in right both state and federal , with no priority given to the federal tax lien ?
MR . GIBSON : Right . You first do your lien … you just do it in the office . “ We hereby declare a lien .” The Feds did and we ( the state ) did . The evidence was that we did it before they did . And then you attach it . And the key was that we attached before they did . They claimed that if they declared their lien before we attached , then they had priority . The Supreme Court agreed with us .
MR . BELCHER : And the name of the case is ?
MR . GIBSON : United States vs . Cutting and Trimming .
MR . BELCHER : So it sounds like you have had just an amazing career . Being a solo practitioner , a prosecutor , a judge , the attorney general , the head of a large firm in Central Vermont , arguing cases before the highest court in the land . It sounds like you ’ ve done pretty much everything !
MR . GIBSON : And bar examiner and Uniform Law Commissioner . The ULC was interesting because they would have committees and they would make suggestions as to where there should be uniform law . Clark Gravel , Peter Langrock and I were on it . We all went to national meetings , and these two continued to be on for years .
MR . BELCHER : It sounds like you worked with many of the highly-respected members of the bar over the years . Was there anything else you wanted to add ?
MR . GIBSON : Well there was something that Tom Davis said to me . It was after Dean Davis died and we were at the funeral home . Tommy said , “ My dad told me one time , I asked him if you ever had your back against the wall , needing an attorney , of all the attorneys you know , who would you pick ? My father said , Chuck Gibson .” That amazed me .
MR . BELCHER : I can ’ t think of a greater compliment than to have the recommendation of Judge Davis who was a great lawyer himself . Because we are at a close here , I just want to say that you have had a great career and you contributed in so many ways to the Vermont Bar , to the profession and to the people of Vermont in your various capacities . I certainly appreciate it and honor you . There are a group of outstanding lawyers in Central Vermont and you are certainly one of them . Thanks so much !
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