was never empty. So the need for people to have their own
experience is enormous, not just of being the viewer but of
being an active participant.
When you first started, did you ever consider performance in the theatre over performance art? Why did you
chose one route as opposed to the other?
I hated theatre at that time. Theatre, to me, was illusion, a
dark space where the actor was performing somebody else
and their feelings were not real. I compare it to the story
that they use the ketchup and I use the blood. I needed
reality, real feelings. The theatre was a big enemy for me
until 1989 when I decided the only theatre I wanted to play
was the theatre of my life.
I learned slowly but now I can accept theatre as an artform. It’s just different, that’s all. So I can really do both.
And to me, to actually accept that, and also to jump from
one boundary to another is very important and very liberating; that it’s actually possible and it’s okay.
That brings me to asking you about doing work with Lady
Gaga. What interested you about her work that made you
want to collaborate with her?
In my life I have always seen the big picture. I’ve also been
criticized for my contemporary stuff, and people are asking,
“What is she is doing in pop-culture now?” and questioning, ”How is this changing your work?” This is nonsense.
Every day I receive this kind of criticism, but people don’t
understand the big picture. Lady Gaga went to MoMA not
to sit in front of me just to be seen at the exhibition as a
normal visitor, but because of the theatre. After that, every
single younger kid in the neighborhood came to see Lady
Gaga. The moment she left the museum the kids came to
see my show, and they really got something out of it. She
brought to me, without knowing it, a new young audience,
which is very important for my work. I hadn’t met her before that moment, and later on she came to me and told
me that she really wanted to learn from art. She went to
Jeff Koons, she went to Bob Wilson, and then she went to
me. She was very sincere, and she told me she wanted to
do one of my workshops. I really made tough exercises for
her and she was incredibly dedicated and not faking it. As
one of my better students, I really pushed her. Another
interesting thing, and why it’s so important to work with
Lady Gaga, is how she has 43 million followers on twitter.
43 Million! You could never have such a following as an
artist because it’s another kind of public. Her world’s a pop
world. Lady Gaga needed to focus in that moment of her
life. She needed to understand concentration, all of that
with learning the Abramovic method. She became an example to the kids while working with my method, and that
means they are going to start seeing what performance art
is and ask, “What is Lady Gaga doing at my institute?” That
kind of publicity is extremely important. It was a transition
from one world to another. That’s why it was important.
Also, I think Lady Gaga is a talented musician and she told
me how nobody knows what it takes to get there. This kid